Got a bit of valvetrain noise in the Trans-Am

[TransAmDan]

11th Dec 2012 I notice the engine making extra clicking sounds while I was warming up the car defrosting the windows etc..

When i got to work i lifted the bonnet, the noise was still there. It comes and goes, it doesn't appear to be every time the cylinder fires. I tried listening around the engine. It seems to be loudest in the intake manifold. This is an empty space so would echo more. So I would assume the noise is coming from one of the heads.

I'm thinking its a bent pushrod, a hydrolic lifter not pumping up or a rocker not doing what it should or even a snaped spring.

I'll have to take off both valve covers to take a look, although I think I will go for the passenger side first as that's where I thought I first heard the sound.

Its been a while since I took a look under the valve covers. The heads and cam have done around 40 - 50k miles. I went for dual valve springs so they would recover faster at higher RPM's but they don't last as long.

 

[TransAmDan]

Just took a quick video at lunch time.

[video=youtube;69rAS7I0P-c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69rAS7I0P-c&feature=youtu.be[/video]
Bit hard to hear the actual noise though.

 

[TransAmDan]

I'm gonna park the car up until i find out what it is, its firing on all 8, no noticeable loss of power, although I haven't gone over 30% throttle or over 2000rpm since I've heard the noise.
I drove it back from the Farmhouse on Saturday, it was driving fine, however once i got it into the drive, i got the usual scrape of the exhaust but there was another noise. This is the noise I can hear now.
This noise don't come out on the video. if only I could filter out the other noises. I will pop it in the garage and start taking it apart. Once i get power/light to the garage.

 

[TransAmDan]

[video=youtube;LSOzH2m62aA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSOzH2m62aA[/video]
Chap in the states thought he had a lifter problem, similar noises, turned out to be exhaust leak.
My noise does sound very metalicy, like metal hitting metal.

 

[TransAmDan]

In the morning the rocker cover(s) are coming off. I will take some photos. May even start the car with the rocker cover off. I know on some older Chevy blocks oil will squirt from one side. Its just mainly to check where the noise, or play is coming from.
I will take some photos and post up on here. I'm kinda thinking a broken valve spring. Each valve has dual valve springs, so if the inner or outer spring is coming apart it may make that noise.

 

[TransAmDan]

Had a cuppa, just about to make breakfast,need to pop over the road to get some milk.

 

[TransAmDan]

Took the rocker cover off.

All valve springs look good and intact. no metal bits in there, so probably not metal hitting metal in this head. Rocker cover looks good, nothing been hitting it.
Rockers look tight.

Thought I'd start the car up, but couldn't connect the coil pack on this side as it would be resting on the rocker. I've started the car on 4 cylinders. Here is a video of it.
[video=youtube;wE7aJszWMA0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wE7aJszWMA0[/video]
All moving parts are moving as they should.

I havn't change the oil filter for a while, although I am getting good oil pressure on tick over, 40-60psi which is usual. I have a spare oil filter.
So I'm off to pro-parts to get some oil flusher, give it a little run taking care.

 

[TransAmDan]

Yesterday I run the oil flush int he car on fast idle(about 1300 rpm) for 15mins. The ticking is more constant now. Turned the car off and changed the oil. New fresh 5w30 in there and some lifter additive. The noise still there. Got Paul Bristow to have a listen, its coming from the valley of the V8. So its gonna be intake manifold off, and take a look. This is where the Cam and lifters are located. Although I believe to take the lifters out the heads need to come off. It seems to be leaning towards a lifter problem.

So whats the plan.... well I'm gonna reverse the car into the garage, this is a task in itself as the car bottoms out and gets stuck on the ground when reversing in. So I'll have to build up the drive way with some wood first. Once in the garage I will take off the intake, and the valley cover to take a look. the reason for reversing in, as if the engine needs to come out it can. Because if heads are coming off I will get them reconditioned and depending on funds a stroker kit will happen as at the moment the bottom end is still standard and its done over 170k miles.

The challenge continues..

 

[TransAmDan]

Just thought I'd check what lifters I have in there. I got these ones... 98-02 Comp Cams High Energy Hydraulic Roller Lifters | WS6store.com
Comp Cams High Energy Hydraulic Roller Lifters

They shouldn't have worn out yet, but I think its a good place to check.

The next problem is the inspection once the valley cover is removed. You cannot see the lifters once the cover is removed. So it is a heads off job

 

[TransAmDan]

Well more event happened last night. I went to the gym after work, and got totally knackered, I use the fiesta for to and from work. I get home and then have the idea of turning the trans am around in the driveway. The point of this is to put the car into the garage back first, so if the engine needs to come out then it can.
The drive way has a bit for a dip in it, meaning the car bottoms out, making scrape when driving the car in and out. So I built up the drive with some planks of wood.
So I started the trans-am, it fired up straight away. This new ticking noise wasn't there. Reversed the car out into the road, then it cuts out, sometimes it does this after starting (idle tuning need attention on cold start-ups) so I try to start it, the starter just clicks. The car is now on a slope aiming toward someone elses driveway, and I'm sitting diagonally across the road. I'm in my shorts and t-shirt still from the gym. What must it have looked like, winter weather a dude in summer gear trying to push a trans am up a slope in the dark. Anyway a car comes up the road, and nicely gives me a hand pushing. Then a neighbor comes out also giving a push. we turn the car round, aiming for the drive. Back wheels in, and then it bottoms out, giving it a few good shoves it finally goes in, scraping like a good one. Good job I put down the planks of wood or we would have no chance getting it in. Both the additions pushers leave. I now need to get the car back into the garage, the driver way is relatively flat. It is tight getting the car into the garage, the ground is damp and slippery. The front wheels get caught in a rut, I'm tring to rock the car on my own get get it to budge, using the wall with one hand, holding the sail panel of the car, and one leg pushing on the floor the other pulling on the wall. So now I'm star shaped and the car is barely budging,using all my strength while changing various shades of red and purple (good job its dark) This was better than a gym workout.

Finally get the car tucked up in the garage. I rocked the car in gear in case the started was stuck. Tried to jump start it from the fiesta just in case the battery was iffy. As I have noticed recently that the battery has trouble turning the engine, it would be slow and then speed up and fire.
Well no luck, starter just clicks. So the engine has too much friction to turn over. So I need to try and turn the engine by hand with a large breaker bar on the bottom pulley wheel. I'll take off both the rocker covers to inspect. Its likely to be a heads off job.
Wont have time tonight, so this is a weekend job.

 

[TransAmDan]

Been taking the engine apart today.

Took out the spark plugs and I can turn the engine with a breaker bar, although it is stiff. Perhaps that normal as your fighting against the valve springs.
Felt the push rods when the valves are closed, all feel tight. So there isn't a bent one, as this could have caused the rattle sound.

The mission goes on...

 

[TransAmDan]

Had a few injury's along the way.

 

[TransAmDan]

Got one head off. That was a challenge.

Left the push rods in there for Paul to take a look at. He came over and took out the 8 lifters and one of them has a surclip what was coming away.
This would have giving a ticking noise as the oil pressure wouldn't have happened in the lifter..

Signs of wear elsewhere too. They have done 40,000 miles. Time to replace them all.

No do I just replace them, or get a 383ci stroker kit.... something to think about.

 

[TransAmDan]

Not has much chance to do any more to the car over the xmas/new year break. I still need to get the other head off. Then buy new head gaskets and lifters as a minimum approx ?300, but just brought a new bathroom yesterday from B&Q in the sale for about ?800, then on the way out got a kitchen too, well sales rep coming out to measure up in a few days. So not sure yet when I'll get the bits for the car, perhaps next month.

 

[TransAmDan]

Still not been out to the car. Really need to get on with it to get it done for wheels day. Well the bathroom arrived on Monday. So I will need to see what I need to get that in. I'll probably take a week off work. I'll probably do the same once I know what parts I need to get the car back up and running. I'll keep on posting on the blog, perhaps it will turn into a bathroom thread until i get back working on the car.

 

[TransAmDan]

Another month has passed. I still not been out to do anything on the car.

 

[TransAmDan]

The lifters are here, well Paul has them and the head gaskets will be here Tuesday. Hopefully these are all the parts I need.

 

[TransAmDan]

Worked on the car last night. Needed to get the second head off to give to Paul to then take it to Bander engineering. Get it all cleaned up, not skimmed though as that could cause me some issues with the pushrod length and we don't want the valves not fully closing, plus the potential of valve to piston clash. So all the valve seats and valves will be cleaned up and new valve stem oil seals fitted

So now both heads are off. I've turned the crank with a ratchet and if i turn it fast enough the engine keeps turning, so its running nice and freely. :loco:

 

[TransAmDan]

I may be popping the heads on tonight. So getting some notes together from LS1Howto.com Lay the new head gaskets in place. NOTICE how they go on...there is writing inscribed on them pointing to what should be facing front, what should be up, and what is visible. If you get these wrong you will block coolant passages so make sure you do this correctly.

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Now lay the new head in place, making sure to get the head correctly on the two dowels that are in the block (dowels are in the bottom bolt holes..furthest back and front most). Go ahead and start threading the M-8 bolts back in by hand. You can reuse the small M-8 bolts if you wish, but you need to apply some locktite to them (GM locktite PN 12345382). If you bought new M-8 bolts they come with locktite pre-applied. Remember where the 2 shorter M-11 bolts went in (top row, furthest back and furthest front) and hand thread those in...then put the 8 longer ones in once again by hand.

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Now, grab a socket wrench and lightly turn the bolts until they stop. Now for the very precice part. You need to get your torque wrench out now and fit it with a 3" extension and a 15mm socket. Using the sequence illustrated above, torque all 10 15mm bolts to 22lb-ft.

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Ok, now for a GREAT tip from Scott99Z. Take a felt tip marker and draw a horizontal line on the head of each bolt. This is very important. Now, using the sequence illustrated above, turn all 10 15mm bolts an additional 90 degrees using a large socket wrench and a lot of muscle. Try to get as close to 90 degreees as possible...you may have to do multiple turns of 30 degrees or 2 turns of 45 degrees. When done all the lines on the bolt heads should be totally vertical. Next, again using the sequence above, turn bolts 1 through 8 another 90 degrees. This will take an immense amount of effort...if you have a buddy helping both of you should turn the wrench simultanoiusly. These 8 bolts will now all have horizontal lines on them Using the sequence above, turn bolts 9 and 10 an additional 50 degrees. Again, this will take a lot of effort. 50 degrees should result in a diagonal line on the bolts Finally, using the sequence above, torque bolts 11 through 15 to 22 lb-ft.

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Now that the heads are installed, its time to re-assemble the valvetrain. Drop the 16 pushrods in their holes, and reinstall the rockers. First torque each rocker down to 20-lbft, then do a 2nd pass and torque them to 24lbft.

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Once the valvetrain is installed again, reinstall the power steering/bracket assembly. This once again will take patience and slow wrenching with a stubby 15mm wrench. Once its attached, reinstall water pump. I found it easiest to place the 6 bolts in the water pump, lay the gaskets on the end of those bolts, then place the whole assembly on the block and hand thread the bolts in the holes. This ensures the gaskets will line up correctly. If you have a 1998 car you will need to use your new water pump gaskets here. Torque the water pump bolts to 11lbft in the first pass, then do a 2nd pass and torque them to 22lbft. Now rebolt up your headers/exhaust manifolds making sure to slide the metal gasket back between the manifold and the heads. Tighten these bolts down hand tight, or 18lbft. Your motor should now look like something on the left.

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[TransAmDan]

Got a couple of hours in on the car last night.

The head surface of the block is all cleaned up and shiny. Nothing left of the old head gasket on there now. Even cleaned the tops of the pistons while I was in there. Turning the crank pulley wheel by hand. Seems to rotate smoothly with no friction.

The new lifters all lubed up, popped into the tray that hold 4 at a time (4 of these making 16 lifters in the car)

Slid in nicely.

Took a look at one of the old lifters, its hard to see in the photo, but on the right hand side there is signs of stress on the metal where the pin goes though for the roller.

I compared the new and old lifters in. The one at the bottom of the photo is the old one, the sur-clip design is a lot different to the new one. The new ones are better for higher revving.

Hoping for dry weather on Saturday and I should get the heads on.....