HP Tuners Tuning Software

TransAmDan

TransAmDan

Forum Admin
Staff member
Well as most of you know I have been using HP tuners software for many years, over a decade. Looks like I have a copy of my BIN file read form the car dated 2005. In those days I was learning, and just getting into it, not many mods done on the car at that point.

Well due to upgrading to Windows10, I have has some issues with this old software, it required .NET 2.0 whih you can enabled in Windows 10, but the fix didn't appear to work. The scanning part of the software worked totally fine, but editing did not.

As it was software i was quite happy with and certainly got my monies worth, I decided to but the newer version on Monday, 8th May, contacted HP tuners direct, they could ship to the UK, but mentioned Summit Racing have deals on shipping and the product is the same price at $649 as I wanted the pro version with analogue inputs. So ordered from Summit Racing, it got dispatched on Tuesday via DHL and arrived on my desk on Thursday.

IMAG5442.jpg
Exciting stuff, its on my desk.

IMAG5443.jpg
Even got some Summit Racing stickers.

The package comes with licencing, 8 GM credits. 2 will be used for licencing my car, so have some spare to remap other vehicles. I can data log most GM vehicles from 1999 on wards.
IMAG5444.jpg
Plugged in and setting up on my lappa flappa.

Making some final tweaks to the engines PCM file, like from the results of my last scanning session.
 
It should be able to scan modern GM vehicles, I don't have a Dodge licence though.
 
log_screen_shot.jpg
A screen shot of the data logging.

A lot of parameters have different units, its east to switch between lb/min to g/s, or KMH to MPH. More setting up to do.

Was playing with the AEM wideband guage last night. This is the one I got in the states from WS6Store.com AEM X-Series OBDII Wideband UEGO AFR Sensor Controller Gauge | Widebands | PCM/Electronics | 98-02 Camaro/Firebird | WS6store.com
In the first paragraph it reads...
AEM's X-Series OBDII Wideband UEGO AFR Sensor Controller Gauge (PN 30-0333) provides tuners who are using piggyback tuning modules or open source software with the ability to view AFR through the factory CAN-bus stream that is output by the factory ECU, and deliver the most accurate, safe and powerful tune. The 30-0333 X-Series OBDII Wideband Gauge is verified to work with HPTuners and DashDaq, with more applications being validated.
Click to expand...
Thats a bonus, saves wiring the analogue output in through the EGR valve input (I dont use EGR, and its a great way to read a voltage though the ECU).
Anyway was having trouble getting HPTuners to see this sensor. I noticed someone else having trouble but with a more modern vehicle. AEM 30-0333 - OBD / CAN connection on Scanner 3.4 he got it working but switch channels in the AEM. so I spent about an hour out there going though 7 ECU types and around 8 PID settings. No joy, so pinged off an email to AEM
AEM's reply was:-
Unfortunately, the OBD2 output from the 30-0333 is CAN based and is only compatible with vehicles 2008 and newer. I recommend using a 30-0300 X-Series Wideband Gauge Controller instead. You will then be able to send the correct analog signal to you HP Tuners.
Click to expand...

Well HP tuners can read can on later vehicles, so if my car isn't using them pins for anything else, then the CAN bus wont be interfeering with anything. Done a search for the OBDII connectors and how they were used over the years.

Pin
Number Pin
Name Description
1 Second UART
2 J1850 J1850(+) VPW
3 Comfort
4 GND Chassis ground
5 SGND Signal Ground
6 HS-CAN PCM
7 K-Line n/c
8 CCM
9 first UART
10 PWM n/c
11 EVA controller
12 ABS
13 SIR
14 HS-CAN(-) E&C
15 L-Line n/c
16 Battery+ Battery +, unswitched
Since 2002, there is another pinout - GM-LAN (for vehicles equipped with CAN bus)

Pin
Number Pin
Name Description
1 SW-LS-CAN (33kB) or DW-FT-CAN (+) (<125kB)

2 J1850 n/a
3 MS-CAN (+) (95kB)
4 GND Chassis ground
5 SGND Signal Ground
6 HS-CAN ISO 15765 HS-CAN (+) (500kB)
7 K-Line n/a
8 n/a
9 DW-FT-CAN (-) (<125kB)
10 PWM n/c
11 MS-CAN (-) (95kB)
12 K-Line (KW82 Prot.)
13 reserved
14 HS-CAN(-) ISO 15765 HS-CAN (-) (500kB)
15 L-Line n/a
16 Battery+ Battery +, unswitched


Looking into the ODB Connector, the CAN pins are in use on my model of vehicle for something else. Doh!.

I will go for my backup plan of extracting the analogue signal in to the MPVI HP tuners pod. I could go though the EGR, but you can only read a certainly amount of sensors over ODBII before is takes two frames to send them. Its around 24 sensors you can read, if you go 25, then it takes twice a long to read them. So using the analogue input of the MPVI it wont be going though the ODBII so can get me an extra sensor and still a single frame transmission.
 
Got the info ready to wire in the Wide band guage to the HpTuners pod.
vcm_scanner_eio_plug.jpg
Wire colours from the wide-band is documented in the installation sheet.

I have some high quality audio cable which is screened and a pair of wires inside, so ideal for using on this gauge. I'll get this done at the weekend.
 
List of supported Vehicles:- HPTuners.com >> Performance At Your Fingertip

Pontiac
Year Model Type Single Vehicle
GM Credits Unlimited Year/Model
GM Credits
06-10 G5 2.2, 2.4 (06 2.2 Not Supported) 2 12
06-10 G6 2.4 2 12
06-09 G6 3.5, 3.6, 3.9 (3.5 in 07+ only) 2 12
08-10 G8 3.6 2 12
08-09 G8 6.0, 6.2 2 12
97-05 Bonneville 3.8 2 6
97-02 Firebird 3.8 2 6
98-02 Firebird 5.7 2 6
97-05 Grand Am 2.2, 2.4 2 6
97-05 Grand Am 3.1, 3.4 2 6
97-07 Grand Prix 3.1, 3.8 2 6
05-09 Grand Prix 5.3 2 12
04 GTO 5.7 2 6
05-06 GTO 2 12
06-09 Solstice 2.0, 2.4 2 12
97-05 Sunfire 2.2, 2.4 2 6
07-09 Torrent 3.4 2 12
97-05 Montana 3.4 2 6
05 Montana 3.5 2 NA
06-09 Montana 3.9 2 12

So I can do Wills Grand-Prix
 
IMAG5457.jpg
Caning for can interface. I need to move 2 wires to the other end.
IMAG5458.jpg
Analogue signal available.
IMAG5459.jpg

Chopped off the odb2 connector as it was no use to me. Using the can wires now for analogue. Goes to the tuning pod.
Now to drive and test. :)
 
wish i could understand this electronic tuning stuff, would be very useful to me
 
renchero said:
wish i could understand this electronic tuning stuff, would be very useful to me
Click to expand...
I can give some pointers next time I see you. I'm not familiar with MSD system, but its doing the same thing as the PCM would do in mine.


IMAG5464.jpg
Well you know I have the pod to program the car, and then you can scan using the laptop. Well is this new model, you can scan without the laptop, does about 80mins of recording. Well i trued this yesterday. Just hold the record button for 2 seconds and the record light comes on, then do a drive, when done hold stop for 2 seconds. Take pod indoors connect to the scanner software and download from the pod, and create a file for each log. It does save taking the laptop out. It can record multiple files too, thinks its limit is 32 entries with a max time of 80mins for all. Taking the laptop out yesterday was very handy as I could remap in a layby, and drive some more checking the changes i just done.
 
Made an interesting finding today. The car has detected knock around 1200 to 1600 rpm, sometimes retards the timing by as much at 9 degrees. Now fuel is perfect at this point. So would usually indicate timing if too far advanced. So a few times I have retarded the timing, in some places as much as 12 degrees. Well this does effect pulling away, stumbling etc.... Even after all the retarding it still detecting knock. So it is something else. It is fine above 1800rpm, so if there was any mechanical issue it would be showing issues elsewhere.
Reverted my timing back to a few days ago. Filled up with super unleaded, the octane level can also effect pinking(detonation) creating knock if octane level too low. The high the compression thr more chance you get an issue.
Been logging with just the data logger pod. Pulled away at a few junctions, and felt a little rumble on the floor. I bet the knock retard has been falsely activated by the exhaust, Will have to check on that. This would make sense as pulling away is the only time it detects knock, this is also the only time the exhaust knocks. Not that I have noticed the exhaust before, but certainly did on the way down here.
 
False knock is not uncommon, on the LT1 it was common to fit the LT4 KM because it was a little less sensitive.
Maybe see if there is any difference to the LS6/LS2 KM, either one might be less sensitive?
 
Yeah, I heard LS1's are a bit sensitive, I guess it was the first generation of the LS series. They are the originals ones, I have never changed them.
I can desensitise them in the software, I can also disable them below a certain load (map sensor) and can enable above a certain throttle position. So some flexibility. When I do an oil change, which is going to be soon, I'll check to see if I can manipulate the exhaust.
 
Been looking at some previous logs. There is something I wanted to tackle for a while, but as it wasn't too important its been no rush to do so.

Say I was cruising at 30mph, RPM's around 1400, going at a constant speed on flat ground, throttle off or just a tad like 1%. I get a bit of bucking. Fuel is perfect at this point. As soon as I add some engine load by touching the throttle it is all fine. By touching the throttle it runs in different positions on fuel and timing map. We know fuel is good. So what about timing, well timing is fine when driving. Is it the low load timing maps that are the issue, should i advance or retard the timings....

Looking at the logs I do spot something,
log.jpg
The spark timing is the white line on the 3rd graph down. Notice how its jumping around, its this point I feel something in the car, cruising with no load. Throttle pretty much off. No look further to the right, the spark advance is stable due to throttle going up (green line on 2nd graph)

So why is it jumping around. Well there are two tables in force at this point. High octane spark advance table and Idle spark while in drive table.
idle_spark.jpg
Idle Spark Table Above

high_octane_spark.jpg
High Octane table above.

At 1400 RPM if it jumped between these two tables then its could be 4 or 5 degrees of timing, like we see on the first graph. So this we would certainly feel when driving.

So what should i do about it. well I could copy the columns from the high octane table to the idle spark timing. However I have a low octane table too, which it will drop into when I use duff fuel. Running super unleaded at the mo.
How about stopping it swapping between the two tables...
spark_swap_settings.gif
There are settings for this, so if TPS was below 1.4% then it could swap to the idle spark table.

I have now zero'd out these values, so it will always stay in the high/low octane spark table. I will give this a go tonight on the way to car club.

If that doesn't work I will look for something else. Its only fine tuning bits I'm looking at now, as the bulk of it is working very well.

Just thought I'd keep ya all updated with the progress.
 
AmericanThunder said:
Interesting, but are you able to confirm that timing is not being pulled by the knock sensor?
Click to expand...
Yes when I overlay the knock sensor retard map, it's at a slightly higher load. So it shouldn't affect it. Good thinking though, it's something I will keep an eye on.
 
I didn't realize that the sensitivity of the knock sensor varies according to an RPM map. That seems dangerous as surely you would want a lean condition detected across the entire RPM range and timing pulled accordingly?
 
AmericanThunder said:
I didn't realize that the sensitivity of the knock sensor varies according to an RPM map. That seems dangerous as surely you would want a lean condition detected across the entire RPM range and timing pulled accordingly?
Click to expand...
Your right you don't want to be winding down the sensitivity of the sensors. I have the knock sensitivity the same across the board. If it detects knock around 1200rpm and at a load of 0.5g/s of air, it will remember what load and RPM the knock occurred and retard the timing next time that cell is hit. On cruise that load isn't hit, so say 1200rpm at 0.16g/s of air, its way below where knock was seen before so it wont be effecting the timing.

The knock sensor map.
knock.jpg
This knock was detected when pulling away, I'm pretty sure this is false knock as can hear the exhaust tapping on the floor at that same point. When cruising the air coming in is 0.20g/s or below, so quite a bit below the rejoin where knock was seen.
 
So, how does it learn not to pull timing again?
Does it gradually pull less each time until knock is detected again or is that it until the PCM is reset and it reverts back to the standard table?
 
AmericanThunder said:
So, how does it learn not to pull timing again?
Does it gradually pull less each time until knock is detected again or is that it until the PCM is reset and it reverts back to the standard table?
Click to expand...

Timing gets reset when a fresh tank of fuel is added. Dont know the actual threshold, something like if you fill up and have over 75% tank full, then timing is reset back to the high octane table, and relearns all over again, taking out timing until knock is gone up to a certain limit. The retard limits haven't changed since stock. I'll get under the car at the weekend and search for that knock. Would be nice to see a knock free scan.
 
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